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Posted: 25 Dec 2006, 12:15
Aeon
I've been downloading lots and lots of tracks, picking through them trying to find the ones I like, and I'm finding that a lot of tracks all seem to have the same problems, which don't result in especially fun tracks. Maybe its just because I haven't been racing with the fastest of cars, and most of the tracks are designed for fast cars (since most of the downloadable custom cars out there insist on being at least a little if not way way faster than every stock car), but I'd like to point out some of the things that have been consistantly annoying me in most of the tracks I've downloaded. Feel free to argue my points if you like - they're just my opinions.

LONG, OPEN STRAIGHTS: They're everywhere. As I said, maybe its just that my cars are too slow, but I'm getting tired of tracks that insist on putting large gaps where you drive in a long straight line to the next turn, hoping that your car can get there before the faster cars do. Its not much fun. Racing should be about making fast choices; do I brake now or try to make it through at full speed? Should I go right or go left? Should I try to overtake that car and risk spinning out? Should I try to go through that turn a little tighter and risk hitting the wall? Should I attempt to make it through that shortcut without crashing? There are no choices involved in driving down a long straight line. No choices = no fun (unless your car goes 70mph+, anyway :). However, when you put a few rocks, some crates, trees, etc... ANYTHING in the middle of the long straight that players have to drive around, then it becomes interesting. A real challenge to get around the obstacles as quickly as possible without crashing into them or any cars that might be nearby.

Second problem: BLIND CORNERS: These are very, very abundant in Lego tracks, which is why I started disliking most of them right away. Its pretty simple really: If you can't see where you're going while in first-person drive mode, then its a bad corner. You might be able to get away with it if the setup REQUIRES that you go real slow, so you have time to digest what you see when you come around the bend, but for the most part, blind corners just suck. For further reference, most anything that's 90 degrees or more is a blind corner. Most lego tracks are just a bunch of 90 and 180 degree turns and they're not much fun at all, because you can't see where you're going most of the time. Now, if you want to be fun, you want to have tight, winding corners where you can see whats coming at you around the curve, you've just got to decide how you're going to react to it.

Third Problem: NO PERSONALITY: This one's a bit harder to define, but every track should have at least one feature in it that makes you think, "Wow, that was awesome". If it doesn't, the track might as well be pitched. Some tracks, though, even the ones that include nice corners and no long straights, are just so boring and repetative that you can't hardly stand to finish anything past the third lap. Some professional games suffer from tracks like this too (XGRA comes to mind...) There should always be at least a neat scene, an interesting corner, a challenging spoit, or SOMETHING that makes you think about the track while you're driving it. Some tracks are just so boring that I find myself daydreaming through them...

Fourth Problem, and probably not a problem for most people: BIG HUGE UPHILL RAMP AT THE VERY BEGINNING: Some cars can't get up them. So for the love of all that doesn't have much EngineRatio, avoid making long, steep ramps anywhere in your track, ESPECIALLY at the very beginning when cars don't have any momentum. Short steep ramps are okay, long shallow ramps are okay, but never ever do long steep ramps - with possible exception to stunt arenas and tracks with specific cars included, like that mountain climb track. Sadly, some of my favorite tracks suffer from this problem. :(

I'll avoid complaining about huge sudden drops, because I know they're more fun when you haven't turned the ResMod on all your cars to 0, causing them to fall like bricks.

Oh yeah, and my fifth problem, mentioned slightly earlier: LACK OF CHOICES: This occured to me when driving around a lego track that was riddled with little, annoying bumps in the road that did nothing but slow you down. The bumps stretched scross the whole road, so there was no way to avoid them or anything. They were just there - a fact of life on that track. So my final point is, choices are nice. When you have a choice to drive over the ramp for a slight shortcut or around the ramp and avoid the risk of crashing, that's fun. If the ramp has no purpose but can still be avoided, that's still fun. If you're forced to go up the ramp, that's not so fun. Choices are nice. They make things more fun. Add more choices in your tracks, please.

Finally: SHORTCUTS ARE GOOD: There should be more of them. Risky little side detours that give you an advantage if you manage to do them right - and if you don't, you're screwed, which serves you right for trying to take a shortcut. I've seen a lot of tracks that had places which would have made cool shortcuts - dodging between the crates instead of going around them, going down the side alley instead of down the main road. Only trouble is, when you try to take that route, you get the annoying little flashing X that says you're now going the wrong way, so you have to back up through the shortcut and do it properly or you're out of the race. Boo.

One more thought that's not a complaint: I've seen a lot of tracks that -appear- to have alternative pathway that don't actually lead anywhere. It'd be awesome if people built track settings with the idea of making several tracks out of them. They'd all use the same setting (and some of those settings are really cool!), but they'd take different routes through it. That side street you couldn't drive down on the other track; well, when you race the track backwards on the second version, you pop out from that side street and rejoin the familiar areas. Just a thought.

Anyway, that's my rant for today.


[Edit]
Forgot to mention that CROSSING SECTIONS OF TRACK aren't fun, either. Nobody likes getting creamed by a car that was coming at you from the side, out of your sight, and totally unavoidable (because you didn't know it was there).

And whatsmore, its nice when you can tell where you're supposed to go on a track. Wide open tracks with a few obstacles that you're supposed to race around _ARE NOT FUN_. Use walls, people. As long as you aren't using blind corners, you shouldn't have a problem with banging into them all the time.

Posted: 25 Dec 2006, 15:14
Skitch2
THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL FLAME AT YOU DOOD! So please dont take it that way mate :)

OK, To totaly pull apart everything you have posted about...
ready.

I do not understand why you play racing games!! in real life you are challenged by random events, nothing is how you want it to be. In Re-Volt it is the same... Makers want to give us random events to challege us. Imagine a track that has everything you want in it... how boring and predictable is that??? You said about the drop on Zero2 before the tunnel? It is there to make you slow down, if you dont slow down youll crash!! Thats called driving!! so my next track for you will be a steady boring sweeping steady romp with no challenge? Nahh sorry not gonna happen!! I can very rarely win with people like yourself, because I make an easiy one you say its too easy, i make a hard one, you dont like the turns, I make one inbetween, you dont like certain bits.... I dunno, cant please all the people all of the time lol.

For you to write an essay like the one you have just wrote, you are playing the wrong game dood!
You will never be satisfied unless you take the game and the creative team who make levels for it for what they are. Just accept there work and say to yourself , At least the game lives on threw new cars and tracks, rather than finding things to pick at.

Have fun thats all its about!! WOOO HOOOO ITSS CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted: 25 Dec 2006, 20:07
Aylown
I like all tracks,Especially the hardest ones ;)

I disagree with you in the blind corners,they are good,separating the men from the boys :lol:

I agree in the Open Straight Stuff,and the no personality,I also agree that the track must have at least one tricky spot,like City Nites,It has 5 challenging corners,the rest is open straight,but the challenging place is where ya make the difference

I dont have a prob with ramps...Nor with lack of shortcuts,It's up to the creator :)

I like crossing sectors,Show your skills in dodging boy!!

Also I agree with Skitch2

I want the max2tracks website dude,I wanna learn to make nice tracks :)

Posted: 25 Dec 2006, 21:04
human
hey pepo,
merry christmas to everybody!
well, interesting thoughts from both sides (if we have to distinguish the two).
i understand both of you, however i think both of you was a bit too strict. from aeon's side its understandable that he dislikes features that he feels to be boring and he considers them as mistakes, but maybe hes not aware of the difficulties of making tracks. from the other side skitch might think that hes a bit rude complaining about what he experienced and he felt he must express, because hes assay only contains black points and no praise.
as a track maker i think about what makes a track interesting. from my experiences i have found out so far that after making some rubbish i still prefer the stocks when im playing online even though we race them all the time. what makes the stocks to be most played today despite the existence of hundreds of custom tracks? there must be something that i should better consider as a track maker, on the other hand it must to attract somebody's attention to the facts, namely that making a track like the originals requires deep interest, devotion, hard work and takes noticeable time.
thats enough stuttering by me, lets do something else now :). thanks for the creations to the makers and thanks for racing them to the players. have a great time in the holiday everybody, and happy new year!

Posted: 26 Dec 2006, 01:02
Aeon
Just because something is predictable doesn't mean its boring. There are quite a few Re-Volt tracks, the layouts of which I know by heart, which are still very challenging for me, even if by now I can totally predict what's around every corner. But they're challenging because they're setup in a way that makes it difficult, with lots of choices, narrow passages, and difficult turns that you can see coming, but still have to menuever around. Its just more satisfying when you crash because you steered your vehicle poorly, not because you couldn't see what you were about to run into until it was too late.

And I don't have a problem with the drop in "Zero2", I just think that if you miss the tunnel, it could effect the flow of the track negatively. :P And missing the target is a lot easier to do on an ice track, and while you're in the air.

human is right thought that I'm "not aware of the difficulties of making tracks". Well, actually I'm sure they're difficult to make, but I haven't made one so I can't say much about it. But if tracks really do require gobs and gobs of effort to make, then I sure wouldn't want people to waste their efforts on tracks that people wouldn't consider fun.

(I have however spent the last 3-4 weeks picking car stats to death. B))

Posted: 26 Dec 2006, 04:32
human
basically i can agree most of you all say including me :)
we are different, why should we say the same? the point is to be honest, this is my saying for a few years. i dont see a strong contrast in this topic.

Posted: 26 Dec 2006, 15:35
Skitch2
Aint Forums Great!!! hehe

Hope you all had a great day yesterday!!

On with Re-Volt creation for another year lol Woo Hoooo!!!!

Posted: 27 Dec 2006, 13:18
re_volt
Hey!
Can i do shortcuts to lego tracks? :D

Posted: 27 Dec 2006, 19:18
zagames
Yeah, but they don't always look very good.

Posted: 29 Dec 2006, 15:20
plic
the tracks i made had some personality - that was my foremost concern (not my first track thats was test)
next was the flow, i had always liked the flow of the stock tracks its perfect in almost every sense! if you are a rookie u can use a slow car so it wouldn't be difficult - if you are a pro then u would be using a fast car now u have to think about cutting corners.

there are some customs which don't focus like this and its them that lose out.
sure if you are going to make a track especially for a specific class then other classes may boo you but then it was what u wanted.
lets take for example hil's tracks - i have realized his tracks have a nice racing line and never too hard and he also has a way of making it stunning by introducing diferent elements along the track - some tracks don't have such a thing - the same theme runs over and over again - ad to that frustrating racing line - no fun !

when making i think a maker should atleast think about different events like this : ok so the car starts here, now it goes through the ramp, now onto the tunnel which everyone dreads, oh now it should take a dive into the pool, underground! thats what i am talking about, now some weird helix structure , criss-crossing through bushes , back to the starting line!

i mean change in locales is the way to make a good track! it keeps ur interest alive!
thst where most of the lego tracks fail!